Mark Vandegrift
Welcome to the Brand Shorthand Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Vandegrift, and with me today is the Advertising Advisor, Lorraine Kessler. Well, Lorraine, here we are at the end of another season. Can you believe we've done two full seasons?

Lorraine Kessler
I can't, and I hope that our audiences out there can't believe it either.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah, that's right. Like we want to leave them with wanting more.

Lorraine Kessler
Wanting more. Yep.

Mark Vandegrift
I see you wore your 50th anniversary sweatshirt again. That's awesome. Yep. So closing out the season in the right fashion.

Lorraine Kessler
Right? I'm thinking I'm not washing it for 50 wears, just in honor.

Mark Vandegrift
I'm not going to recommend that. Well, Lorraine, the most important question of the season for all of our 30-plus episodes: are you going to miss me?

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, Mark, I'm definitely going to miss you. So we're going to have to, you know, get our Asian lunch back going again.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah, go to Rice Paper, get some sushi. That's right. Good. Well, looking back on season two, this is our wrap-up session for the year. And the first big episode we had was about the Super Bowl 58 ads. And I remember we talked a bit about the longevity of these commercials. And I have to ask, how many of the commercials do you remember?

Lorraine Kessler
None. Zero. I'd have to see then to remember whether it was a Super Bowl commercial.

Mark Vandegrift
Well, I have two that stick with me whenever someone says, "Hey, do you remember those ads?" And I think it's cause we talked a lot about a lot about it this year, but Poppi, remember the healthy soda. And that was my winner because they, they hit the industry, they hit the category hard by saying, "you thought about all these other ones as unhealthy sodas. We now have a healthy soda", and Poppy comes out. So I thought they did a great job. And the other one was, do you remember the BMW commercial? Does that ring a bell? Christopher Walken, by any chance?

Lorraine Kessler
Oh, geez, yeah.

Mark Vandegrift
And he goes around and everyone's trying to do his voice and he's tired of hearing it. And they end it with BMW, there's only one, and it's different. So I think those hit me as just, hey, these were great because of their positioning.

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, and I guess I remember Poppi and I still remember it and I think what a great, it's probably in the whole year, one of the best new category definitions or subdivision of a category, right? It's a soda with none of the bad stuff. And I think Coca-Cola or is it Pepsi made a play to buy them, and I don't know which one was it.

Mark Vandegrift
It was Coke. Yeah, of all things. Coke buying Poppi, and Poppi sounding like Pepsi.

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, it's like, but that probably was their intention and it was a very good use of the Super Bowl to do that. So I'm sorry I didn't remember that, but hey, it's a long year. Yeah.

Mark Vandegrift
That's right. Well, I think looking back at those commercials, a lot of them leaned really heavily on celebrity endorsement.

Lorraine Kessler
They all do. I mean, if you look at the Super Bowl over the years I've written the articles, it's all about what celebrities are doing what. You know, Sarah Johansson doing the Soda Stream, right? I mean, you can go back. Christina Applegate, I think she was, I think, if I have it right, Toyota, one of the cars. And I mean, what happens is you end up remembering a lot of times the celebrity more than the product. You have like I am, I know as a car category, was it Toyota, was it Hyundai? I have a hard time bringing that forward in terms of all the celebrities that have been used.

Mark Vandegrift
Well, you know who's done a good job with it. Now he owns it. So it's a little different, but there's been consistency with it is- I think his name is Ryan Reynolds that all the girls love. Even Denver, our producer loves Ryan, but I say Ryan Reynolds and people say Mint Mobile

Lorraine Kessler
Yep. They know right away.

Mark Vandegrift
And why? Because he's been consistent. Like you did this big production for the Super Bowl, paid all these celebrities, all this money, and I haven't seen most of those ads again. Whereas Ryan Reynolds, I constantly see Mint Mobile ads. It's kind of that thing where, "Yeah, that celebrity was in an ad. I don't remember what the ad was, but the celebrity was in it." Which what did that do? All that did was help the celebrity. It didn't really do anything toward the brand.

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, years, years, years ago, Bob Conrad from the Wild Wild West TV show.

Mark Vandegrift
Love that show.

Lorraine Kessler
Love that show. I do too. But he had the ever ready battery. "Can you knock it off?" And I don't know if you remember that. I better-

Mark Vandegrift
No, I don't.

Lorraine Kessler
But I thought that was a really good celebrity use for a product.

Mark Vandegrift
Well, and that's the point. It's a shame to see all these good ideas because some are really great ideas, but they get, they're like a one hit wonder. They get this run on the Super Bowl and we never see them again. To your point, making the connection to the position to get it into the mind, to remember the label with which we remember brands. I think that leads me to our- Remember we did that three part series, "Positioning for Professionals: Exploding Myths"? Remember we delve into the 15 myths of positioning. If I recall number six is "brand is only about advertising". Well, that seems to be a myth a lot of those commercials fall into. Can you think of any other examples of commercials we cover this season that fell victim to some of those positioning myths?

Lorraine Kessler
I think one of the myths that businesses fall into is that "competition is the reason for commoditization", right? Like, there's too much competitors and so we're all alike. And we just talked about this too much, this urge to copy, this urge to be like everyone else. It's really that which is at the heart of commoditization. Because we've seen- we saw Perrier break out in the water market, right? Selling bottled water before anybody was thinking about it. We saw Starbucks break out with very expensive coffee by creating an experience that didn't exist. And what is more commoditized than water and coffee? I mean, there's two categories. So I think the thinking is so wrong. And we see this a lot in healthcare, in any industry that's big and does have a lot of competitors, we tend to see this kind of thinking. And so what we see is this homogenization, I think was the word you used. And it's all based on this urge to copy. So I think that's one I see a lot. Think about the drug chains, Walgreens, CVS. I mean, come on. None of them have been able to break out and really do anything meaningful in this pharmacy business. And so I think more than anything, that one seems to loom on the horizon for me quite a bit.

Mark Vandegrift
Well, another fun thing we did this year, we had quite a few more guests. We had Dr. Scott Powell from Grove City College. We had AultCare's, Mike Gallina, and then just a couple of weeks ago, Smeeple's Calvin Holston. And then we also brought in Cheryl Henderson and Merce Brown, two of our associates here. So we had a contingency.

Lorraine Kessler
Don't forget, don't forget Roy Williams, the Wizard of Ads.

Mark Vandegrift
That was last year, believe it or not. That was not this year.

Lorraine Kessler
No way. No way. This is the problem when you get older, the years go faster.

Mark Vandegrift
But I think starting off chronologically, we talked to Scott clear back in February. And yeah, and just a couple of weeks ago, I guest lectured there on just what life is like in an advertising agency. It was really fun interacting with the students again. But what stands out to you most about Scott's guest appearance? Do you have anything in mind that was a big takeaway for you?

Lorraine Kessler
Well, think, know, interestingly, we've seen the same theme with Gallina, with Scott, with Calvin. Their definition of leadership is servant leadership, and it involves humility and a sense of always being curious and in that actually and also being based on certain principles that are kind of immutable. So they have a real sense of true north. And I just think it was very edifying for me to hear them. I felt very supported, not just in the business and in being like thinking, but in how they live their lives as people of faith and character and integrity and how that carries them forward. I found that very inspiring.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah, you actually touched on a part of Mike Gallina's that stuck with me. If you recall, he said they shifted their focus from "politics follows the money" into "this organization follows community needs". I think was like the perfect summation of their position. And it's also talking about what you're saying, which is servant leadership is so critical in all of this.

Lorraine Kessler
Right. And really, that's so important in branding, because the best brands have a sense of integrity. They have a core. They have an anatomy. You we've talked about the positioning as kind of your spine or a tether, and it doesn't move. The balls may move around the tether pole, but the pole is a plant in the ground. And that's when, if you look at any brand that we would consider to be strong, they have that sense of determination that these individuals have. And I think that brands grow out of people, right? So.

Mark Vandegrift
Absolutely. Yeah, very good. And then, you know, Cheryl was fun because we, you know, on our side, we're all about the strategy, right? Strategy, strategy, strategy. People are tired of hearing about strategy and positioning. We know what a difference that makes. But it was neat to see Cheryl pick up on where we leave off, right? So we give the strategy, but neither one of us is about creating that visual identity. And it's been really neat this year. I've been privileged to lead an account which has done remarkably well despite a bad name. And they're getting ready to launch that new brand in the marketplace. And Cheryl grabbed that brand. She grabbed the personality of the company. She grabbed the emotional side of it and ran with it. And it just goes to show that, strategy and creative, when they line up perfectly man. It's a magical thing and it was just neat to hear her talk about that. So do you recall anything from that conversation that stood out to you?

Lorraine Kessler
Well, I think just in general, Cheryl's such a spark, right? I mean, she's just a joyous person, and that makes for work to be joyful for all around her. And again, she's another person of enormous faith and spirit and commitment and discipline. And I think that's inspiring to those who work with her. And the fact that she truly- I think the thing that stood out to me was how she doesn't like the peacocks either in creative, right? We've all dealt with the peacocks in creative over our careers and many agencies, but not Innis Maggiore. I always found this to be very unique to Innis Maggiore. Most agencies that I was familiar with, the one I worked for and others that I've interviewed with or known about, the creative and client services were like snake-mongoose every day. And Innis Maggiore has never been like that. And it takes people like Cheryl who respects what we're trying to do on the front end in client services with the client's business strategy that then leads to a marketing strategy that helps them to differentiate. And then how she can come in from the other perspective of "how do I make this tie in to the customer and make this relevant to them". So I think that was a blessing to hear that.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah. And then Merce, if you recall- and she's our youngest associate to be on the podcast- just her grasp of crisis communications. I thought it was interesting because you being seasoned- and I'm not calling you old- you have the professionalism of experience, and she's very new in the industry, but you both arrived at the same conclusion on Dunkin' Donuts and the whole Rumble video. That was interesting because, strategically, she's so smart already and understands the concept of crisis communications. Anything jump out at you about hers?

Lorraine Kessler
Well, you know, yeah, she has great instincts and you really can't teach instincts. People either have it or they don't. You can add to your base of knowledge, but at the end of the day, your gut has to rule and she has a good gut about those things. And she had new perspectives too that I didn't quite have that I was really interested to hear, that I think are more representative of today and what- how social media has affected what we call crisis communications.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah, yeah, good. And then our last interview with Calvin, a couple of weeks ago. And I know you said you were going to get some consultations with maybe one of their sports figures or something like that. And I'm sure that hasn't happened yet since you don't see their grandkids as frequently as you would like to. But wasn't that isn't the whole concept just fascinating? I mean, it makes you want to jump on the platform and be an expert, but then also get experts smarts that's available on there.

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah. Yeah, I not only reached out to both my grandkids and said, "I'll pay for a session, find a coach." So I'm waiting to hear from them. And then my son's partner is a expert yoga instructor for meditation. And he's written, he's written books and he's written curriculum for nurses who are wanting to use meditation to kind of- cause it's a very stressful job. And I thought, "Zach, you could be a great expert." So I need to connect him together. I first heard the idea, it took Calvin really going into detail on it. And I think, again, as I said to Calvin, his core in this position is the way he curates the experts so that they're trustworthy. They can be the ultimate trustworthy experts. You're not going to get a guy who pretends to be HVAC one day and then gives you plumbing advice. And I think that's part of his integrity. We talk about helping clients find a position. We often talk about your DNA, right? We talk about company, customer, competition, and context. Well, certainly context, this is a totally new world made possible by technology. In terms of the customer, it's someone who wants advice and we need expertise in so many areas. But, you know, can't afford or doesn't want to have someone come to the house who, you know, in large bills, and sometimes, in something better than Google or Facebook, which often don't agree. But then we talk a lot about company and that's the DNA factor of, know, that's where your belief Simon Sinek plays. What do you believe? What do you really mean? So what do you really believe in more than money? And his DNA and his commitment to integrity, which follows through to how he prices this, right? I think begins with, want you to trust this site. And I believe people deserve the best knowledge they can get at an affordable price. That's his real mojo. And so he makes it affordable, but if you didn't have the advisors first, it would be nowhere. So I thought it was a really great conversation.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah. Well, let's shift topics a little bit. And this, I think, was perhaps the biggest news of the year. I don't know. Just because we've always used these brands for so long, making examples out of them. And that's Coke and Pepsi. And Pepsi's big fall from number two to Dr. Pepper.

Lorraine Kessler
That's insane.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah, isn't that insane? And just remind our listeners as to what your take was on that and maybe what happened to Pepsi.

Lorraine Kessler
Well, I think Pepsi got bored with their advertising and they got bored with the position that really is an immutable position, a timeless position, that they're the drink of a new generation. First of all, there's always new generations. Right? So what does that mean? We are youthful. We present a very youth-forward kind of aspect. We're very relevant. to those who want to be new thinkers, whether you're 80 or whether you're 20. That's the mojo that they had. And they just stopped being fun. I mean, it was a fun position and they stopped having fun with it and stopped being fun. And when did you see a Pepsi ad? They gave up the Super Bowl. So I think they vacated a space that they held and it made it easy for Dr. Pepper to slip in.

Mark Vandegrift
Well, Denver, our producer, wanted me to bring a fun fact to you. And I think you probably already know it. I don't know. I I knew it, but I don't know if a lot of people know it. Do you know where the name "Pepsi" comes from?

Lorraine Kessler
No, I don't.

Mark Vandegrift
So Pepsi in 1898, right, before it really came on the scene as the drink of a new generation, it was initially advertised to help with dyspepsia, which is the medical term for indigestion or upset stomach.

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, peptic acid.

Mark Vandegrift
So think about that next time you crack open an ice cold can of upset stomach.

Lorraine Kessler
The thing is, if you do have that condition, the last thing they want you to drink is any caffeine-based soda. So it's like, no, do not drink that. So that's even funny. But all these things were elixirs. Coca-Cola was an elixir.

Mark Vandegrift
Dr. Pepper was an elixir.

Lorraine Kessler
They were elixirs, and they were developed by pharmacists. Like, yeah, here's your little brew, custom brew, and take this and it'll solve everything from hair loss to acid indigestion to amnesia.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah. So another part of this season, we did a three parter on "Big Brands, Big Trouble". Do you remember that?

Lorraine Kessler
Vaguely, yes.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah, well, it was covering the mistakes of Jack Trout's book of the same name, right? Was being like the "Me Too" mistake, the "What Are You Selling" mistake, the "Truth Will Win Out" mistake. Remember all those?

Lorraine Kessler
Right.

Mark Vandegrift
So I think that was really a good one for our listeners if they want to go back and catch those, because there's probably at some point during a brand's life cycle that you're always in. You're always in one of these issues, right? You either forget what got you there, or you forgot your position, or you're in the copy- the one you brought up earlier that overlaps this one- the copying mistake, right? The "Me Too" mistake. Or the one I run into all the time, and this happens because I do so much on the web, but "What Are You selling" mistake? Yeah, like we forget to tell people, "By the way, before you know why I'm different, I'm selling X." Yep, that's-

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, Yeah, that one is like a cardinal mistake. And here's what people do, who they want to make whatever they're selling sound more highfalutin. And I think if they make it sound bigger and institutional or whatever words they want to use, that they're going to be able to charge a higher price or increase value. And all they end up doing is confusing the public. If I have to say, what is a blank? You know, like what is a Mark? Your advertising has already failed before it's even begun.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah. Well, and that's a good reminder for even new technology like Calvin's with Smeeple, right? Smeeple is great because it's "smart people" put together or "subject matter experts" with people put together. And down the road, I can see that being like Google. People will call it, "Hey, get a Smeeple on the line" or something. Right now, though, he has to still explain his technology within his marketing so that people can grasp, "I can consult with someone online literally right now and just pay them either $0 for the 15 minutes or a very low price?" That's something that's really critical to get the messaging out with.

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, when you have a new category like that, you have to make analogies. So he's like Teladoc. "Telexpert", right? So all you have to do is download the app, connect it, connect with an expert. Now people are used to that. So how do we in the word- the creative, to me, has to find a way. And I also think they should overtly say, Smeeple was inspired by an idea- you know, whether it's in the mission or whatever page you want to put it on, but it needs to be somewhere- where subject matter experts meet people. Then make it as simple as it like a Teladoc. People understand Teladoc now. They didn't at first, they do now. So it's not as far a bridge as it might've been 10, 15 years ago.

Mark Vandegrift
Yep, yep, exactly. Well going back to our topic here, "Big Brands, Big Trouble", there was a big "B" that we kept thematically touching on all year long, and a big B called boycotts.

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, boycotts. Right.

Mark Vandegrift
So Bud Light, Dunkin, Harley Davidson, John Deere, Target, I mean, boycott, boycott, boycott, yeah. And what's interesting is we're only eight days away from the election, right? Here on October 28th. We got election coming up November 5th. And if there's ever been a more divided, debated election, I mean, I'm sure back in the day, people felt the same way, but it just seems like all these brands are entering into the political divide. And so they automatically end up on one side or the other. Then they back-track. And so they just pissed off the other side that they were trying to get. So now everyone's ticked off at them and no one wins. you know, with the election coming up, give your 30,000 foot view for a brand in today's day and age regarding politics and what to do or not to do.

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, when you think of a brand, if a brand is born of a political ideology such as Ben and Jerry's, right, they've always been progressive, they've always been liberal, they've only pressed that even more. They've already written off in their head, "If you don't want to buy from us because you don't agree with our ideology, our political stance, fine." There's a certain integrity in that, right? There's a certain integrity in Mr. Pillow being- because he was kind of born of patriotic, Americana, more conservative values. That's fine. But when a brand that already has a constituent customer base of a large amount, and is already stands for something else that's kind of more universal, takes a stand that is polarizing in that way, they're gonna lose.

I've said this before. If Budweiser wanted to go after the transgender community, the gay community, the lesbian community, whatever, that whole mix, there's no problem with Budweiser and the corporation creating a new brand that's just for those people and people who align with those values. There's nothing wrong with that. I mean, hey, I'm not here to say what's right or wrong in terms of morals when it comes to who you appeal to in marketing. Where they made the mistake was trying to take Bud Light, which has a very defined constituency who does not align with those values. And worse yet, telling that constituency that "We don't like your values at all other than you buy our beer, and we want to change your values because we need to bring you along." I think when a brand does that, it totally misses the boat in terms of what its real role is in society and its real value. And I think you're going to see boycotts. You're going to see problems with that. And you know what? It goes back, we were saying that just about some of our speakers this year. There's no integrity in that. There is absolutely zero true north in a brand when it's going to do this kind of stuff and throw over its existing audience and basically diss them to say, "You're kind of not where you need to be. You need to be where we want you to be." No, no, you are marketing your product to that buyer. You're not in the job of value shaping for that person's entire life.

Mark Vandegrift
Right. Yep. And, you know, to me, that's going to be the big theme of 2024 looking back. And that one word "boycott" will be sticking in my head and all these brands that did exactly what you just said. Well, I think that's a good look back on this season, don't you?

Lorraine Kessler
Well, I hope so, whether I think it is or not doesn't matter. It's really whether those who are listening feel like this was a good season for them and this was a good week.

Mark Vandegrift
Yep, yep. And keep the great ideas coming via email. We love our copious ideas in terms of topics to cover. And we'll close it out there, Lorraine. Any final parting words as we end 2024? We only have two months to go, and I'm sure some craziness will happen here in the next week. But what do you think? Any closing recommendations, suggestions, give our listeners something to walk away with?

Lorraine Kessler
Always, I would say to everyone, what I learned this year from our guests, remain a student, be open to others' ideas, have a sense of your own true north, and good things will happen.

Mark Vandegrift
Well, if you haven't liked, shared, subscribed, or told your friends about the Brand Shorthand Podcast, be sure to do so. And I'm gonna do our audio logo that I developed after our last episode. "Subscribe, subscribe, subscribe!"

Lorraine Kessler
You should put our phone number in there. Do a whole jingle. All "three three zero four five five zero zero".

Mark Vandegrift
Very good. Excellent. That was, you sang pretty well. I might allow you to start singing again, Lorraine.

Lorraine Kessler
Good. Good to know.

Mark Vandegrift
Well, until next season, have an amazing 2024 and a great start to 2025.

Lorraine Kessler
Thank you all.