Mark Vandegrift
Welcome to another episode of the Brand Shorthand Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Vandegrift, and with me today is our branding buff, Lorraine Kessler. How do you like that one, Lorraine?

Lorraine Kessler
Well, I like that. I like being a buff versus a puff. I mean, I don't know.

Mark Vandegrift
Well, since we did the last episode about this idea of brands doing something, we made a prediction, it didn't go so well, and we said, I told you so. We have one we're going to do now where we're at the beginning of that, that we're questioning whether or not this is a good move. And that's Taco Bell. So Lindsey is gonna play the commercial and then let's comment on that.

Lorraine Kessler
Okay.

Mark Vandegrift
So this was sent from our executive director of creative services, Cheryl Henderson. She's been on the podcast before. And she thought we might have something to say about it. So here's what Taco Bell is promoting, of all things. And this is near and dear to my heart. Chicken nuggets. Okay. Now when you say chicken nuggets, the only thing that comes up is McDonald's in my brain you can't, I won't even go to my favorite chicken place, is Chick-fil-A, or Wendy's, which I think is a burger joint, or some of these other places that offer chicken nuggets. So here's the overview of the spot. You know all saw it, but Gabby Winley, she's been on The Bachelor and Dancing with the Stars and such. She says, I can't believe how good they are, referring to the chicken nuggets. And the narrator then chimes in and says, why can't you believe it? And Gabby says, because you're a taco bell. And so the emphasis on taco. So of course then the narrator has to explain how it's possible that someone going through an identity crisis is able to think of a taco place for chicken nuggets, okay? That is using humor and storytelling and all that. So Lorraine, you're a positionist. We have this incongruency, this tension, is there any possibility that Taco Bell can make chicken nuggets work? You already know my answer.

Lorraine Kessler
Well, I think it's a stretch. I mean, in the last episode, I advised people to read our creative director, Scott Edwards' take on Krispy Kreme and the McDonald's failure. And I would say read it again, because this is much worse. And he wrote, I mean, Scott wrote in that article, which was a great line, a marriage of convenience does not work out. There is no underlying love. Simply put, Mickey D's and Krispy Kreme not only aren't compatible, they clash. And that's what you just said. I mean, here you have Taco Bell known for Mexican-inspired foods, right? Whether it's, you know, their tacos or their burritos or it's Mexican-inspired fast food. And some of those are inventions like the Dorito taco and stuff which I think was a brilliant idea. But tacos and chicken nuggets that, I mean, chicken nuggets are inspired by American Southern culture. I mean, that's a fried chicken. And they said, well, we can do this. Well, yeah. I mean, in the end, like, yeah, we can do this. Yeah, you can do anything you want. It doesn't mean it's worthwhile or it's beneficial, right? But you can't do it without, in my opinion, I think in yours, tarnishing or weakening the Taco Bell meaning as America's favorite Mexican fast food. I mean, what's next? Donuts? So let's go back. Whisk cream's available, right? I ask the obvious. Obviously fried chicken of some sort, despite so-called think Krispy Kreme's available healthy eating trends is huge. mean, the category is so crowded. And even though you don't think of McDonald's, I think of every place I travel around our small hometown, Raising Cane's, Popeyes, KFC, Chick-fil-A, Slim Chickens, Bojangles, Wendy's, Burger King, McDonald's. I mean, how many chicken nuggets can America eat? I'm expecting a shortage of chicken nuggets soon. So it's just, it's a crowded category. So why didn't Taco Bell do something different with it? Something that fits its brand? Why not make it a Mexican thing? Like a tortilla with chicken nuggets that has a special Taco Bell sauce or a Dorito crust, right? Like instead of regular Southern fried or whatever breading. I just think they had an opportunity. If they really felt we want to capture part of that market, they could have done it and stayed within the brand, but with a new recipe. And so to me, this is a fatal mistake. I would never think of them for chicken nuggets. Moreover, from a brand standpoint, long-term, it does devolve the brand. It does make it sound like I'll sell anything that's hot, not in a sauce heat, but hot in terms of what sells. And that's a pandering that I just don't think works.

Mark Vandegrift
Well, I look at it all those other places that offer it. So I think of Wendy's, you know, offering chicken nuggets. I, I just look at that as there's kids that are going to be going through the drive-through that maybe not aren't at the hamburger level yet. And everywhere they go, they need chicken nuggets. So if Taco Bell offers chicken nuggets, okay, I'm fine with that, but making a big deal on advertising it. You know, we always say not everything you sell, do you advertise?

Lorraine Kessler
That's right. That's right. It's just like we were talking about with Krispy Kreme after the initial introduction. If McDonald's didn't make that the focal of what makes McDonald's McDonald's, maybe that wouldn't be so catastrophic. as we said, McDonald's was dealing with a different situation because there's complexity with Krispy Kreme, I think the partnership, there were some other back end issues that weren't going well financially and what have you, that's different here. Taco Bell controls this menu item. It's not a partnership with KFC, right? So it's a little different, but yeah, I think if they looked at it, as you're saying, incremental revenue, because again, like we said with McDonald's, family comes in Maybe the kids want donuts. They don't want an egg with muffin. Okay, they don't want that hot stuff. Okay. Maybe here's similar thing. Some people just want their chicken nuggets. So it makes Taco Bell a good choice for a mixed family. But I think you're making a point. Wow. And how you market it is gonna be, is really important.

Mark Vandegrift
Well, and this goes to the nuance I think of positioning. know, if all I did was think everything was labeled chicken, then you just named a bunch, Bojangles, Popeyes, KFC, Chick-fil-A, you know, et cetera, et cetera. But I think it goes deeper than that. When I think of KFC, I think fried chicken in a bucket. When I think of Chick-fil-A, I think of the grilled chicken sandwich, right? When I think of Popeyes, I think of Southern fried chicken.

Lorraine Kessler
Louisiana, Yeah, yeah.

Mark Vandegrift
So those are Louisiana, yeah. So those are nuances that help us separate these brands. Now, some of the others, like I just, I haven't categorized yet, Bojangles and Canes. Canes, all I ever hear about is how great their sauce is. And it's like, well, their chicken's awful. I think so. So all of a sudden, now we're talking about chicken sauces that aren't even part of the core product, which is your chicken. So, you I could take my finger and eat sauce, but whatever. But it goes back to this nuance of positioning that I just don't think people fully grasp that we really can as human beings categorize things at a very, very specific level that we probably don't even consciously pull out. It's more of our innate like boy, KFC sounds good tonight. Well, what am I saying to myself? I'm saying fried chicken in a bucket is probably what I'm thinking, not grilled chicken nuggets, right? Cause I don't even think they offer those. So we're innately building these categories, right? And we have a big category of chicken that we have to put these individual nuanced ideas on them that then just out of a feeling I go, boy, Chicken sauce at Kane's sounds really good tonight. I'm not saying that to myself. It's just like what my body is going, oh boy, I feel like having a grilled chicken sandwich at Chick-fil-A tonight.

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, our minds are simple and marketers want to make it complex. I'm certainly not thinking of Taco Bell for chicken, chicken. What I could think is we really want Taco Bell, but someone in my family or group really wants chicken and we only want to make one stop. Okay, but the brand is going to stand for Taco Bell. Now, to the extent the seesaw, that this chicken begins to erode the Taco Bell's Taco Bell-ness as a Mexican fast food iteration. I think that's a problem. I think it's a long-term problem. What you get in the short term, maybe on those incremental sales, could do lasting damage, long-term damage, right? So it's just like, hey, it tastes great to eat a donut today, but it could be really killing you tomorrow if you ate it every day. So, you know, there's always this give and take. I read one review that said their chicken is the best of all of them. I think KFC came in third and someone else's nuggets. I can't remember who else came in second. And, but then when I read it, it was kind of an editor and I think they were asked to preview this. Yeah. So I was like, okay, because that makes no sense to me either. How could they beat some of the brands that we know or Wendy's I think was number two.

Mark Vandegrift
That's like the Pepsi challenge, right? Everyone loves Pepsi, but in the end, Coke never lost the market share

Lorraine Kessler
People taste images. I mean, that's the rule. So, you know, if it's just a menu item, it'll seek its own level, right? But it just, they're not a specialist in chicken, or certainly chicken nuggets and fried chicken. Like, there's no reason for me to believe that. I still don't know why they didn't do like, you know, there's chicken and rice. It's a big Mexican meal why don't they do a wrap that was arroz combo with a fried type of chicken and called our nugget wrap with rice, know, arroz. Just something that would have said, okay, it fits within our brand as Taco Bell. Yeah.

Mark Vandegrift
Mexican, yeah, Mexican-ness. Interesting. Okay, so your prediction here, I was gonna ask you one question, which if you were a marketing director, would you have advertised this? And I think your answer is definitely not. But the second question is, do you think this will become a menu item permanently that they don't advertise much of, or will it disappear in a year or two years, just like Krispy Kreme left McDonald's?

Lorraine Kessler
You know, I mean, time will tell. My sense is, I mean, you have to advertise the introduction if you make this bad decision. I think it's a bad decision. So you have to advertise pretty heavily during introduction, which creates confusion because as we said, they're not compatible. Well, let's just say it stays on the menu. I'm not even sure if that's helpful. I don't know what the incremental sales would be value but as a consumer, to me, there's also a trust. Like how fresh is that chicken if you only sell one a day? how, I mean, food safety to me, I mean, we're in a different context and we don't usually talk about context about food safety, but every day there's something about E. coli and hamburgers at Whole Foods today. That happened. There's about...these problems that happen with Boar's Head, right? And they're matter of fact. Every day there's some thing, and to me, fast food restaurants that are serving all of this hypervelocity food, if you have something that's a slow turner in your store, and I mean, a chicken store, KFC is selling chicken. Chick-fil-A is selling chicken. I have a lot more confidence that I'm going to have less of a problem with them than Taco Bell who has a one-off menu. So I don't put a lot of hope in this succeeding even long-term.

Mark Vandegrift
Okay, well, mark it down, Lindsey. We're gonna have to revisit this whenever we find out that Taco Bell kept their chicken nugs or didn't. For me, there's nothing better than McDonald's chicken nugs. I won't go anywhere else for them. The only time I go to McDonald's is to every so often treat myself to chicken nuggets with their hot mustard sauce. End of story. Good, let's shift gears over to another brand. Lorraine, you texted me, I think like a week or two ago about EGO, E-G-O. You asked me about it. They have quite the interesting story. Their brand developed just like 13 years ago now, I think it was. And their top rated name in the industry worldwide, EGO brand was the first to provide a line of cordless outdoor equipment. And we all know the benefit of cordless outdoor equipment. But we also know the frustration of like Black and Decker and some of the others, which is, wait, I don't have a battery for that one. I can't share my battery around. But EGO has made that pretty much, you know, they took that challenge away. And they also have what they call unrivaled performance and long run times. And I do have Black and Decker's. I have an old Sears brand that's cordless or Craftsman, I should say. Isn't that funny how I associate Sears and Craftsman? And then I have an EGO one and easily EGO lasts way longer. And it's on the most powered cordless equipment, which is a leaf blower. Okay. So. I've tried all these and EGO wins hands down. So Lorraine, since you kind of threw this out and you were interested in the brand, what are your thoughts on the brand overall and how do you think they were able to carve their way to being the leader in the cordless equipment industry?

Lorraine Kessler
Well, I didn't know they were around for 10 years. And so just tell you the story. I never saw any of the advertising, which is we've studied was massive or has been massive and multi-channel in every means you could possibly from an influencer, social media, TV, broadcast, whatever. Now they may not know that I'm the one who buys all this equipment.

Mark Vandegrift
Not John.

Lorraine Kessler
I do, I do. My husband does all the pots. Planted pots, I do all the digging and the cutting and the chainsawing and leaf blowing. So I'm a super tool. In fact, every tool we own from a hammer up is one I bought. So I'm the tool fanatic, right? So maybe they think, you know, because there is a flaw with this targeted advertising we can talk about where they create profiles that miss people like me. So I never saw the advertising. What happened is, I happen to go into our little ace in this little market, Bear Lake, Michigan, small town. So I think there's like 500 people in the village. And the shelf is dominated with this brand. Then I see it at Lowe's or Home Depot and lots of SKUs. And I'm like, it's like it had this great coming out party, right? And the branding is amazing. The packaging is great. That green, gray, black, the name, which means E like electric, go, brilliant name. There's nothing they've done wrong. Everything they've done is absolutely what you would, I wish we worked on this brand because it looks like something that we would have worked on. And so that made me research the brand more. And what I find out is they have a killer mega brand product. They're not just making one thing, not just a blower, but they're making everything from riding mowers to regular mowers to, all E. And I think you hit on it. Their differentiation is that they're positioning themselves as a number one brand in cordless power. And they're pushing the power of innovation. So everything that's wrong with electric tools, they fixed. They have a universal battery, it works on all their tools. It was 80 plus, now it's 90 plus. So talk about a mega brand. They're not just an alternative to the noisy, smelly gas products, but now they've positioned themselves against all other cordless products. That, as you said, Craftsman, what was the other brand you mentioned?

Mark Vandegrift
Black and Decker.

Lorraine Kessler
Black and Decker, well, they're stuck in the corner they're making as an old guard kind of tool company who just kind of went into E, but not with this kind of density and intensity. So they have a complete line, leaf growers, trimmers, chainsaws, mowers, and like I said, now 90 plus tools.

Mark Vandegrift
Yep. Yep.

Lorraine Kessler
So what they what they have done is they've said hey, we're offering advanced technology You want to know the position man to now they're number one, but why are they they're saying hey the e Market for these products is deficient and it doesn't offer It offers ordinary technology where you have to even if you buy black and decker You have to get a different battery for the chainsaw than for the blower here, one battery and that long life. I mean, the riding, you could do 22 acres in one charge and then you can actually add more batteries to get more. So they have this patent lithium technology, battery technology. And then the first tool that I found that has laser guidelines for like their weed eaters and stuff, because for those of us who might get distracted, that's probably good reading in your own. So it's just, I just think it's an amazing story. It's what every agency and every marketer should look at. I was surprised when you did the research that they were, they've been at this for 10 years. Cause to me, it's just like, they just had a big coming out party. And like I said, I just, all of a sudden I saw them on the shelves and I was blown away.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah, they've done, I mean, from TV to digital to, I mean, you name it, they've used multiple channels, online, offline. When I walk into Lowe's now, one of the first things I see is the home and garden tool space. And it looks like I walked into an EGO store instead of a Lowe's store, because it's that prominent. The entire shelf is just EGO, EGO, EGO, EGO, EGO. So that's an advertisement in and of itself, but

Lorraine Kessler
Sure, I mean, we know that 75 % of purchase decisions are made at the shelf. So even though I have a cordless weed cutter, blower, chainsaw, I'm like, I'm gonna buy EGO. I mean, they work fine, but I hate this idea that I have all these different batteries and I can't figure, I always have to figure out which one goes with what piece of equipment.

Mark Vandegrift
I had to get an octopus extension cord. Have you ever seen those that like, instead of being a strip, it has eight and it goes like this, just for all my chargers for my different cordless equipment. So it's like, I could have just plugged this one in, boom, and I use it on all the equipment, but that's a different story. I'm fine the way I am. So let's talk a little bit about their advertising. They've had you know, one agency this whole time, I think it's rain from growth or raining growth or I forget the name of it. it wasn't in us majority. So they messed up on that part, but everything else is really good. So,

Lorraine Kessler
Now kudos, they should be agency of the year.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah, well, yeah, for certain for what they've done there. And it's interesting because the media selection is the media selection. I didn't see anything innovative there, but it seems like the message, the way they're delivering it has been really effective, even though I wouldn't call it breakthrough. I don't know what's your what's your thought on that, Lorraine?

Lorraine Kessler
I love the message because it goes back to old school. They're an innovative company. have meaningful innovations that offer true benefits as the number one cordless product line and the one that really puts the power of technology and innovation in your hands. So let's talk message. Media, we spend too much time talking about media. I read all these articles and they all talk about the media use. It's the message, idiots. It's the message. The way to the mind, the way to have success is to have a message that's relevant and that's captivating to your audience. And this brand has rich storytelling. They didn't do what we've talked so much about in advertising today. This gratuitous humor or distractions or celebrities that draw attention to the advertising, not to the product that not to the, and I think Bernbach even said that the job of advertising is to convey the product advantage. That is the whole idea. And they have stayed from a message standpoint, they demonstrate how this works. They talk about the specific features that make this a product you would want. So it's not about feature advertising, it is about brand and that this is the first cordless, but it's cordless that is led by, powered by technology to be everything you could dream of. It's like a dream product. And I think that because the commercials are interesting and relevant to the product and show these amazing features, I think they also end up creating kind of an envy, a fear of missing out. I feel like if I don't have an EGO, I've kind of missed out. I'm like, I'm old school. I have a horse and buggy in my garage, right? Instead of what I could have. So they've been able to create a kind of envy. And I think that's genius. And I love the fact that the advertising doesn't go too far or try to use high jinks, you know, over celebrity, over antics. It's not trying to draw attention to the ad. It's trying to draw attention to the product because there's a real story here. I mean, it's a really good story about this product

Mark Vandegrift
Well, it's interesting because if we compare it to Black and Decker, so if I just said Black and Decker to you, do you think of?

Lorraine Kessler
I think of plugs and red and black. And I mean, small, small appliance, small, yeah.

Mark Vandegrift
There you go, the small tools, right? Which is the category that we're talking about. I almost see them like Kodak in that they may not have known it at the time, Kodak tried to be, they invented the digital camera, but they held back the technology first. And then when they did go to market, they kept Kodak on it. I almost wonder if Black and Decker wouldn't have been better going to market with their cordless line as a different brand. Or if their big problem was someone in the back room goes, you know, it'd be really great. We'll make so much money if we create a different battery for every tool, because every time you buy a tool, the battery is going to have to be different. And then when they go to replace the battery, they got to, you know, buy different batteries. I don't know which way that we would put that but to me, it almost feels like a Kodak moment here that Black and Decker would have been better off going out with a new brand name. What's your thought on that?

Lorraine Kessler
Well, sure, but I think here's the problem. Companies that become established and mature and are making money and have cash cows and all that, that depletes creativity. They stop thinking from a customer perspective, what is it that we're not delivering, that we could? And they start, financial people run these companies and we know they don't like taking risks because it's that means investment. And so you're not rewarded for these new ideas. I know this about Hoover, who was in our market. I had a friend who was an engineer and he went to Hoover and he talked to them about what ended up being Dyson's technology, which Hoover had, and also how they could restyle their machines to be more lightweight, look more modern, not require repair at a repair shop and shot down completely because they were married to their distribution and their repair shop and they didn't want new ideas. They were disruptive. So it's really hard for a company that's got some history to get out of this complacency that seems to eat the brain, the creative brain. So yes, and they thought of that. They could have been the EGO and it would have been a brilliant but we see very few companies that do that, right? We see very few companies that branch out and do that. And yet these opportunities have to be known. Now, I think, I don't know, but I would love to sit down with the EGO management team. They were patient. Remember we talked about Krispy Kreme lacking patience. 10 years, I didn't know that. 90 plus tools don't just happen all at once. The fact that they did line extend in within the space, they could because it's cordless, right? It's lithium battery charged long life products used for lawn care or outdoor care. So they went from small to writing. It works, it fits. So I think they had a real blueprint for how they were going to work this. And I would guess that they took the marketing all the media that they've bought. And they use that, they leverage that to get support from retail. Because I can't understand how you would get this kind of support from retail. What a retailer wants, they don't want a new product, they don't want new things on their shelves. What they want is a product that will turn, a product that has demand. And they want you, manufacturer, to create demand So I feel like they probably had a really good tie in with merchandising what they were doing to market demand through their sales force. And I think that's genius.

Mark Vandegrift
Mm hmm. Yeah. You know, and even as I think through this of the brands that are sitting in my garage, I have a couple of Milwaukee power tools and there would be one where if they went to to electric, that would be devastating to them because when you think of Milwaukee, I actually think old school. I want to plug something into the wall and I'm getting power like I think of Milwaukee as power, baby. Whereas EGO, I'm thinking you know, portable, it's going to give me long life, et cetera. But I still know at the end of the day, I'm gonna have to go plug that thing back in and there's going to be limited life. With Milwaukee, it's just like, plugged that sucker in and it's going to run for 30 years. So there's an example in the market itself where Milwaukee's best thing to do now that Black and Decker moved out of there, they should just stick with, you know, being the plug-in power tool that

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, it's almost professional agree. Yeah.

Mark Vandegrift
crew contractors want to have in their bed of their truck.

Lorraine Kessler
I think that Milwaukee can, and they kind of have this as professional grade, professional use. So the heavy user, this is the product, right? Cause you don't want to be, particularly if you're a professional, but if you consider yourself a professional woodworker or whatever it is, yard worker, you don't want to all of sudden be limited by a battery. But I will say that EGO's leaf blower, their recent ad, says that has the equal power to a gas blower with their advanced battery technology. Now that's kind of scary. So Milwaukee could do exactly what you're saying, is create a new brand. That's all. Now they're going to be number two, so they're going to have to have something that's going to set them apart. But you know, that might be a

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah, I don't know that I'd go there. If I were Milwaukee and someone came in and had some kind of incredible battery development, I'd say new brand right there. Don't don't launch as Milwaukee. Cause I think, and I think Milwaukee, think power.

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, No, no, I said that I wouldn't. Yeah, I just said that. said I would not. They could do a new brand for cordless or battery, but they'd have to have some differentiation from EGO. and now they could maybe do that under the professional tool, but they'd have to have a longer battery life, I think, than EGO. It's kind of, it's kind of, they're kind of, they're kind of caught like Coke, Pepsi in the corner of their own making. So it's interesting. But anyway, I think it's great to applaud everything, the product, the name, the marketing, the message, the media choices, and certainly the move on distribution. They've done, they've hit every piston. They have all pistons worked.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah. Yeah, good. Well, I think it's time to wrap up this episode. Thank you, Lorraine, for joining us as usual. And thank you to our listeners for joining us. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and share with your friends. And until next time, have an amazing day.