Mark Vandegrift
Welcome back to another episode of the Brand Shorthand Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Vandegrift. And with me today is our celebrity campaign conqueror, Lorraine Kessler. How's that for a title?

Lorraine Kessler
That's a pretty good one I wish I was it. Are we going back to like Liquid Death? Do I dream about killing celebrities?

Mark Vandegrift
Yes. That'd be good. You said you wanted, you wanted people to bleed their creative and their brands. So we figured Conqueror was a good followup for, for last week's episode. Well, today we're going to dive into a discussion about the, let's call it an over-saturation of celebrity marketing. And I think this comes out of the Super Bowl Lorraine, where it was just like every commercial was celebrity marketing and you know, today, a lot of times we mix that up with influencer marketing. Here we're talking about a known celeb and appearing in a advertisement in some way, connecting that person to the brand. So I don't know that we can go very long if you're watching any kind of TV consumption to see an ad that doesn't have a celebrity in it. It's pretty rare, I think. And brands that leverage celebrities in their ads can obviously see a ton of different benefits. If you follow that particular celebrity, then you connect the brand to it. So there's always that brand awareness. It can increase trust if you really trust that celebrity. Credibility, if it's brand new product, it's like, well, if this person uses it, then I feel good about that. And then of course just their entertainment value that grabs attention. So the celebrities that are seen on TV, they add an extra level of entertainment compared to that of say a traditional ad. And I mentioned the Super Bowl, one of the most watched television days of the year. And I can't recall any ads in there that didn't have some kind of celebrity. Even if I didn't know them, you know, doing the research, I realized, that's a celebrity. So we all know that as viewers, some of these celebrity spots aren't very good. Others are good. so in order for a brand to see any sort of success in a celebrity marketing campaign, they need to be sure to have the right strategy. I mean being positioning strategists, that's a no brainer for us. And this helps them maybe stand out from a crowd. But let's think through this a little bit, Lorraine. Let's talk through this, because that's our topic today. Explain how we should, as marketers, really think through the strategy of using celebrities.

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, and I think, you know, as you've identified, sometimes it's a quick gimmick to connect a celebrity to a brand if it's not known or whatever, just to get that instant celebrity working for the brand as well as for the actor or whoever is famous. But I think the first thing that the marketer has to think about is you know, what's the inherent risk? Because if you go into this blind, you're not going to be aware of the risk. I mean, when you make your brand synonymous with a celebrity, right? You're trying to fuse those two together for some of the reasons you talk. Maybe there's an affiliation of that particular celebrity with the product. And maybe that makes sense for what you're trying to get across. But What happens to the celebrity good or bad? Happens to your brand to one degree or another. Now sometimes these are pretty big blow-ups, but sometimes they're momentary disruptions. It depends. But you know, you can go back to like Tiger Woods He was dropped by Gillette and by Pepsi and by Accenture and AT&T after his extramarital escapades and the blow-up with the golf club, his wife chasing him with the car, but his escapades. So that was pretty bad disruption for that. Now I have to question too, what real relationship, uniquely, did Gillette have or Accenture to Tiger Woods or even AT&T? Like Nike and Tiger Woods makes sense, right? There was a commercial, I remember Tiger Woods in Buick, which is like an old fuddy duddy car at the time. It's kind of repositioned a little, but like that didn't fit. You really believe that Tiger Woods drives around a Buick? So we've had a lot of these, Kanye West, Sean Diddy Combs, well, that's a good one. Jennifer Lopez with Dolola spirits when after she came out and said, was outspoken about not drinking. Sharon Stone and Christian Dior after claiming that the earthquake that happened in China was karma for their treatment of Tibet. I mean, Martha Stewart sunk her own brand for a while. She's the unsinkable Martha Stewart, she's back, But she sunk her own brand with stock insider trading. So I think you have to be willing to Accept that there's an inherent risk. It is strategically. I think you have to say does the celebrity really make sense? Where the connection to the brand is authentic I mean when it's not authentic when I don't believe that person in a million years ever use that product or consume that product or buy that product, I think you lose something. But there have been some great celebrity connections. You're again too young to maybe remember, but Joe DiMaggio did Mr. Coffee for 20 years and he was Mr. Coffee machine. And Wilford Brimley was the face and voice of Quaker Oats oatmeal it's do the right thing, became really famous and that association of oatmeal and cardiovascular issues he brought to the forefront. And like, why did that work? Well, there's something about their personalities. Like, I don't know that Joe DiMaggio really fit Mr. Coffee, but there was something about his personality and celebrity that made that fit work. I don't know what it was. It was trust, but it was a strange kind of fit and it worked. I also think that the way the advertiser stayed with those personalities, it wasn't a one-off, right? Like sometimes in the Super Bowl, we'll see a one-off kind of situation and then you don't see that celebrity again. Another one that comes to mind was for years, Capital One had an affiliation with Alec Baldwin. And that was extremely effective, effective for both of em.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah, so you mentioned Longevity and Joe DiMaggio for 20 years with the coffee company, and we can think of others that lasted a long time where they almost became synonymous with the brand. And yet, I don't know about you, I'm not seeing that happen much anymore. I'm thinking back to the Super Bowl commercials this year, and we're only, what, two months removed from that and I can't think of too many ads from the Super Bowl commercial that I've seen again. So what do you think it takes to really connect a celebrity to a brand? Do you need to do that? And if not, what's the value of using the celebrity in the first place?

Lorraine Kessler
I think some of this might be ego driven, right? If you're not going to use a celebrity over time to kind of get the voice on your brand, like you're just using them for a one-off kind of moment, then I think that it's ego driving it. I could get Harrison Ford, right, to do a Jeep commercial. Now that one actually worked because at the end he says, my name is Ford, which was kind of a nice, memorable. Punch, but right. Priceline.

Mark Vandegrift
And I've seen that one since the Super Bowl, so you know, that is one of the few.

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, but will they stay with him beyond this year and how long? But I do think there's a certain amount of CMO and company ego that I can get this person. Now nationwide has used Peyton Manning repeatedly. And I think that's really good. He's now associated with that. And remember the days when William Shatner, right? Priceline. a strange fit. I don't know what he had to do with Priceline, but that worked, right? And no one knew that William Shatner could be kind of a funny guy, right? So that was good for him too, because it opened up new avenues. So it's a win-win. But yeah, I think when it's a one-off, it's hard to say what is driving that. I think it's much better when a brand has intention about that celebrity bringing forth something that's unique about that brand, whether it's personality, whether it's difference in total, or it's brand image, it's bringing forward something or some authentic relationship.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah, one that is curious, it's a little bit of a hybrid of longevity, and that's Dunkin' Donuts. So if I say Dunkin' Donuts, can you think of who's associated with that one?

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, it's Matt Damon and his cohort. I see his face. was back then. Yeah, Ben Affleck. Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Vandegrift
Ben, yep. So most people associate Ben Affleck with Dunkin' Donuts more so than Matt Damon. In fact, I don't remember when he was, yeah, the Boston guys, right.

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, it's the Boston guys, you know. I mean, they were a New England, started kind of fast food that's their roots.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah. So, so in their case, the last three Super Bowls, they've done a Ben Affleck commercial and you don't see too much ongoing in that regard, right? So speak to that maybe a little bit. that a, there's a little bit of expectation, like what's Ben going to do this year in Dunkin' Donuts commercial? What do you think about that?

Lorraine Kessler
Well, I don't really study their advertising post-Super Bowl after the few many years, but I think they use the Super Bowl and that exposure and they've been consistent in Ben Affleck being their spokesperson and sometimes with Matt Damon. And so I think there is an association and they've got that and that's their real brand kind of big show event. And then afterwards, when I've seen Dunkin... Don't forget these franchises rely on franchise advertising, local advertising, and what I would call more transactional activation marketing, which is our coffee or featuring a new breakfast sandwich or new menu item. And so I think they have a balance that's worked.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah, one that has gone whole hog into it is Danny DeVito with Jersey Mike subs. And I mean, they're releasing new commercials on that. It seems like every month, which is really interesting. They've, they've gone completely into that and he's so funny and I can immediately think of Jersey Mike's. And he really doesn't represent too many other brands. I kind of think of like Jennifer Aniston in Aveeno, but she's doing, the popcorn now. What's that called? Skinny Pop.

Lorraine Kessler
Skinny Pop, that's it. That's right. That is a great commercial.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah. And, you know, she's standing there. We talked about this a few episodes again, and she goes, I just, you know, I am just over the moon about this. And here she's, you know, connecting with the Skinny Pop bag, not with Jennifer Aniston. Jennifer Aniston has to say her name a few times. And so it's, it's well done. But what do you think about these people that get extended to too many brands? These celebrities.

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, I think that's a problem. I mean, I think that, you know, no one in business likes exclusivities. Like, no one, like, if you're in a distribution business, there's distributors who always want an exclusive and that's always a problem for a manufacturer. But I'm sure the celebrity feels the same way. I don't want to be tied in one brand or whatever. But I think from a brand standpoint, it doesn't help when that personality is...hawking different brands at the same time. So I think you need some distance and some space between when you use, that would go into my consideration set if I were choosing a celebrity. Obviously I'd have the money to choose a celebrity. I'd have a reason for what I was looking for. I think I would go the extra mile and just say during this timeframe, don't accept any other contracts if I could negotiate that.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah. Well, you want to hear a crazy one is Snoop Dogg.

Lorraine Kessler
Right. yeah. yeah. Right.

Mark Vandegrift
Dunkin, Corona, Skechers, Solo Stove, Bix, EZ Reach Lighter, like what?

Lorraine Kessler
Martha Stewart. Yeah, right. And at the end of the day, all it really does is boost Snoop Dogg. And I think this is where the win-win, where you need balance. I think you need balance between brand advertising with the celebrity and activation marketing. But I think you also need balance in terms of what else are they known for? Because they are known or associated with things and you want them to be associated with your brand more than anything else. You know, I forgot one disastrous risk situation, and that was an invented celebrity. You remember Jared and Subway? That killed Subway. And here's a celebrity they made, right? So it's not just celebrities who already exist. It's anytime you make someone a celebrity, you're putting your brand at risk that something could go a liar with the way they behave.

Mark Vandegrift
Well, you'd look at the influencers that have been used where they aren't necessarily a household name because they are, you know, when you're an influencer, you have a very tight audience, right? It's not like I went and saw Matt Damon on screen. Everybody goes see and sees Matt Damon or Danny DeVito has been in so many movies. You know who he is, but you take this influencer who might have a hundred thousand followers well, there's still 350 million people in this country and it's like, who's that person? So then they raise them up as, know, try to make them celebrity status and they're kinda like not meant to be celebrity status. It'd be curious to know if the influencer side of them diminishes because they've been raised up too high. We call that the Peter principle in management, but you almost wonder if there's a Peter principle of celebrities.

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, it reminds me of my mother-in-law who had many famed little pithy statements. Used to say, popularity is fame's small change. And that's what I think of when I think of influencers because in the world of celebrity, they are like fame's small change. They're here today, gone tomorrow. They have very niche markets. And I think you're right. There's a slippery slope. These influencers aren't just benign influencers who find something and want to tell the world about it with authenticity. A lot of people don't realize they're paid. They're paid. They're making money. So that already diminishes, let's say, their influential value in the opinion of myself, maybe others. And then when they are put onto the big stage where no one knows them, it's, you know, you're starting from zero in a certain.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we've used, you know, so that we bring this down to perhaps more of our typical client base because obviously we do a lot of B2B and we're talking some really big brands here, but we've used celebrities in the past. A couple that I remember, Apple growth partners. Do you remember who we used for that one? His voice?

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, René, René, I'm sorry, Adam West for that.

Mark Vandegrift
No, Apple Growth was René Auberjonois. Yeah. Flower Factory did Adam West. Yeah. So the original Batman.

Lorraine Kessler
all right. I had it right the first time. Yeah. yeah. Adam West. All right. Yeah. Yeah. And I work on both those.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah. So, you know, in those cases, we chose to use a voice because these were just radio commercials and everybody knew those voices. It wasn't a question that we were putting these folks on there. Why do you think in these couple cases, Apple growth partners being a B2B accounting firm, although nationwide, flower factory being a local retail shop, why do you think these worked out and what was the benefit in our case of selecting these personalities?

Lorraine Kessler
Well, I think, and it was really our suggestion that we use these personalities, and I think it was really, down to our creative director. The benefit for us clearly was that when you use really great voice talent, and these two were A-list actors and voice talents. And I'm not so sure how many people could hear René Auberjonois and say, that's Rene, what's his name? Or that's Adam West, he was Batman. I'm not sure how many people were hearing it, but they did have very distinctive voices that fit what we're trying to get across. From our standpoint, I know from the creative director's standpoint, when you direct a talent, they're just so much better. They're so professional. It's not like the talent that you just kind of run-of-the-mill talent that might have a good voice. There's something they bring they have signature voices, you know, and those signature voices just carry something, they convey something. So I think there's a texture and just working with professionals. Every time I've had the experience, and I know our creative director had the experience of working with A-list talent, everything goes faster and smoother and better. And, you know, who can forget or who can forget or...it's unforgettable to me, is Mason Adams for Smuckers, which was chosen by Lois Weiss of the Weiss Agency in Cleveland once a great agency up there with the great agencies of all time. When he says with a name like Smuckers, it has to be good. That voice is still very much in your psyche. you know, because radio is the theater of the mind. So I think what you get more than their celebrity, because you're not seeing them, is you just get this quality of voice that has a signature to

Mark Vandegrift
Right. Yep. Good. The one that sticks in my head as really an aberration. Do you remember the Paul Harvey Super Bowl commercial around the farmer?

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, yeah, I do.

Mark Vandegrift
Remember that one? And I want to say it was a Ford truck. But there's an example where I can remember that commercial and I remember his voice reading that. I mean, it was like an ode to farmers. I was just blown away by the creative. But it stopped like it was never run again. And now I can't I know it was for a truck of some sort. I think it was a Ford truck. could have been a Dodge Ram. I don't know, but there's an example to me.

Lorraine Kessler
or it was for farmers, I don't remember.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah there's an example to me of where, you know, you didn't leverage what was probably one of the best creative reads of all time. You're talking about Adam West doing better, René Auberjonois and all of that. Like they're just a step above. Well, Paul Harvey, I mean his voice and the way that commercial was written.It's a piece of artwork, but that's the difference. It's artwork. It's not advertising.

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, and I remember that ad. I remember the feelings it evoked, but I don't remember what it was for now. I was thinking, was it for farmers? And then I was kind of disappointed when you thought it was for a truck, because that's kind of a letdown, right? Because it was beautiful. And I remember in a different agency, we worked with Burgess Meredith. I don't know if you know this, Burgess Meredith is from Ohio, another great Ohioan. yeah What a beautiful voice, right? So literally one take literally took like 15 minutes to record what we needed to record. And it was a beautiful commercial for a Bank. And we were countering a competitor Bank that used Hal Holbrook, another great voice. And the difference was they used Hal Holbrook both in TV and in radio, and they used him over time. So he...to this day is associated with that bank that is no longer, neither he nor the bank are around anymore. But the two became inexorably linked and that was Toledo Trust. And that was a great, I think that was a great news, but voice talent, to your point, think of Sam Elliott, right? What a great voice. So I'm wary about this aspect of marketing with AI, right? Because when these voices are this distinctive, they are protected by copyright. And I know there was a time when Katharine Hepburn sued someone who did an impression of her or an imitation of her on a spot. And it wasn't credited as not Katharine Hepburn or Katharine Hepburn. She won that. So with AI and what they're able to do. It'll be interesting what happens.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah. Well, you know, I think of a few that from a voice standpoint that are no longer with us, but James Earl Jones. I mean, the number of brands that he did, but can you actually attach a brand to James Earl Jones?

Lorraine Kessler
No.

Mark Vandegrift
I can't. And it's interesting how many brands used his voice. And yet I can't think of one brand that ever like James Earl Jones equals this.

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah, like Mason Adams, Smuckers. Anybody that you would know that, but no, I can't with James Earl Jones. You know, he was a stutterer.

Mark Vandegrift
James Earl Jones was a stutterer?

Lorraine Kessler
He was a terrible stutterer and his father made him in Manistee, Michigan, he was a pastor, made him get up and read from the Bible. Well, when he overcame it by performing, actually, I believe, actually performed in an opera.

Mark Vandegrift
Huh, interesting. Well, and right now, speaking of an older voice, Morgan Freeman, can you name a brand that he's currently pitching? I don't know if you've seen it, but they're doing a really good job with it. It's homes.com. And I hate their commercials from the standpoint of all the other stuff they've done. The one they're doing right now is, with the lawyer that says, no, you can't say that homes.com is the best, right? Well, can I say it in Spanish? Can I say it? Can he say it? You know, and that's when they go to Morgan Freeman. And I think they're doing a good job with that. You know, Morgan Freeman, though, again, we I don't think we'll end up equating him to homes.com. At least I hope not. If that's the last thing he ever does, I hope that doesn't happen because he. Yeah.

Lorraine Kessler
David Levy has kind of been the continuum in that. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know who she is.

Mark Vandegrift
And the female that's in that, I don't remember her name. She's popular too. But there's an example again, great voice used a thousand times. In fact, emulated a gazillion times, even in stuff we've done where we're like, no, do a little bit more Morgan Freeman if you can. Only because there's trust in that voice, but no association to a particular brand. I can't think of anyone that I would say he equals in terms of a brand. So it is interesting how celebrity can either be associated with a brand forever or not. know, locally here, who do we think of on the Wheaties box? Massillon football player. Chris Spielman was on the Wheaties box when he was a kid, right? Now that's just here locally. You know, most people think Bruce Jenner or whatever his her name is now and yeah, and being on the box now. But locally here we think of Chris Spielman for that because he kind of became the first high school football player ever to really make it big. so anyhow, well, any other last thoughts on celebrity marketing.

Lorraine Kessler
Well, I think that, again, you need to be conscientious about the risks that are involved, about the association with your brand for authenticity. And like any advertising, we always advocate constancy. Stick with it. Stick with it long enough that you are like the Jersey Mike example is beautiful. He really fits the brand. He certainly fits the vibe and the personality, certainly East Coast. And they've really created a connection. And I think, you know, if you're going to use a celebrity, then use them. I would say bleed it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mark Vandegrift
Our conquering ace today, right?

Lorraine Kessler
And even if there is other than Jared, which was huge. Because to me, that still has hurt some way. Because what he did is off the charts. But I've witnessed different disruptions with celebrities. And they could be catastrophic in the short term, but it seems that great brands are able to get past it.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah. Well, and it's funny you mentioned Danny DeVito again. My wife and I started watching Taxi from the old days on one of the, you know, like me TV or whatever it's called. And it's just so funny to see all the celebrities that were in taxi from Mary Jo Henner and Tony Danza and Christopher Lloyd. And you go down the list. We saw an episode that had Tom Hanks in it as well. And it was just like these celebrities that are old now, but still, know, in top of mind, they've lasted a long time and made it past the issues of having a catastrophic failure, like, you know, maybe Mel Gibson or Jared you brought up, or some of these other interesting characters that maybe shouldn't be representing brands anymore. But...
Let's wrap it up. Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Brand Shorthand Podcast. And thank you to our wonderful listeners for joining us again this week. Don't forget to like, share with a friend, subscribe, subscribe, subscribe. And until next week, have an amazing day.