Mark Vandegrift
Welcome back to another episode of the Brand Shorthand Podcast. I'm your host, Mark Vandegrift, and with me today is our branding backbone, Lorraine Kessler. Lorraine, how you doing?

Lorraine Kessler
I'm doing great, Mark, and I'm glad that you're back from your travels worldwide. I think you'll have something to share about that today. That'd be great.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah, well, I will. I have some very interesting tie into it and it kind of floored me. I was surprised, but we'll hold that as a surprise for our audience. Before we get to our topic today, I wanted to give kind of an overview of where some things are headed with our topics. Once a month, all of our social media and our Positionist View blog and all that other stuff, we're going to feature...particular media. So in this case, this month we're going to start with out of home. So that's going to be our topic for today. And every month, if there's a certain medium that interests you, you can let us know because we're going to be covering those in more of an organized discipline fashion. So one of our topics every month, Lorraine, is going to boil down to a medium like what we have here today.

Lorraine Kessler
Okay. Not the, the seance type.

Mark Vandegrift
No, no seances. No, we're not talking to your dead relative. or Lindsey's for that matter. So anyhow, before we get into it though, we always have to talk about current brand news. And I was at Lowe's the other day and I peek in the refrigerator they have there at checkout and the whole Share a Coke campaign is back. And I saw Michaela and I forget the other name that was on there. It was two Ms and I'm like, where's Mark?
They didn't have Mark, but they had two names, Michaela and something else. And I just thought it was interesting that Coke relaunched their well-known Share a Coke campaign. And that was relatively successful. What's more interesting though is that Pepsi now has entered the playing field. And instead of Share a Coke, it's Share a Pepsi, but you don't share the Coke with Mike or Sally or Lindsey or Lorraine. You share it with your favorite food.

Lorraine Kessler
Okay.

Mark Vandegrift
Okay, so share a Pepsi with burgers or share a Pepsi with wings or share a Pepsi with your favorite authentic Euro. I don't know. So they're just swapping out names for classic foods, which to me, know, my production mind goes to work and I go, well, that seems a lot easier than trying to come up with every name in the world, which could take quite a long time. And one of their messages was share a Pepsi with a burger, not a bro. That was funny. So taking a swing at Coke's campaign is their obvious goal here. And it includes out of home, which is our topic today, and some radio placements, which is not our topic today. But the share a Coke, I think was successful from its personalization aspect, right?

Lorraine Kessler
Right.

Mark Vandegrift
People were going around trying to find their name or a friend's name and I don't think Pepsi is gonna have that same appeal. So give us your thought on this current brand news, Coke v Pepsi, the classic titanic or titan conflict.

Lorraine Kessler
Well, first of all, I would say there's a little distinction because the Share a Coke campaign is, I read a book many years ago, go about this and they called this prosumer advertising, where like you could design a shoe with Nike and put your name on it or whatever. So you are profiling and you are prototyping a product for yourself. So by putting a name on it, it's kind of a version of that. Now, neither the name prosumer or the advertising caught on as well as it was predicted in that book. Pepsi's, guess, is best looked at as a parody. It's a veiled, I think it's a veiled and dubious attempt to recreate the two horse race between it and Coke. Because as we talked earlier this year, Pepsi's fall into now place four behind Dr. Pepper and Sprite. So it's Coke, Dr. Pepper, Sprite, and Pepsi. And I think what they're trying to do is kind of close the gap strategically. At least I'm giving them some credit. This is the way I would think about it strategically. To reinstate Pepsi as the number two cola. Because Sprite and Dr. Pepper are certainly carbonated soda drinks, but they're not cola. And in the cola wars, there's two poles. So it kind of, to me, does that. And I think that's the best value of it. But the line, food deserves Pepsi. It's a good line, but guess what? Coke for years has marketed food just goes better with Coke. Do you remember that? It's not like something they haven't used in a while. So here I see Pepsi doing a parody. I think it's bad taste when they, particularly when they say bro, because I'm not a bro, right? And I don't know what their demographics are, but a lot of women drink Pepsi. I don't want to be called a bro or share it with your bro. I think that they're trying too hard to be hip. Whenever you're caught trying to be hip, it's so disingenuous. It just rings so false to me. So I'm not sure what they're really trying to accomplish. Moreover, in terms of food, not only does Coke own the line, food tastes better with Coke, but they own the Fountain business, which is the restaurant business. They have like 65 to 70 % share, although it's really hard for people, for the people who do this to get totally accurate. But most of what I read says it's 65 to 70 % of the Fountain business, while Pepsi only has 25%. So you know what Fountain business is? Food. It's fast food, QSR, casual restaurant, it's all that. I just, I think in a way Pepsi's like, well, we're going to reposition Coke, right? You know, because we're going to be cooler about it. People don't want to know about names. They want to know how this goes with food. I just don't know. It's like suggestive selling. Of course, everybody knows Coke goes good with food or Cola. I mean, everybody's going to have a burger and a cola or a burger and a french fries and a cola or a pizza and a cola or something. So I'm not sort of suggestive sell is like never occurred to anyone. Oh, we can have food with this product. So it's going to expand the market. I don't see an expand the market. I don't see a market share shift from code happening. just really, think if there, as I said, the one strategy was to create a two horse race. Why? Why? Because they're going to take market share from Coke? I don't think so. Maybe to take market share from Sprite and Dr. Pepper, right? Because now we're going to say cola is, it's cola you should be having with your food, not these other things. But I don't know. It's a strange campaign in my opinion.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah, yeah, I mean, coke bringing it back makes sense. I think limited time. It's almost like the flavors that we talked about when you issue flavors at times and then you pull them back.

Lorraine Kessler
It was theirs to begin with. I mean, that's true prosumer. This isn't prosumer. This is repositioning of a campaign, not of a position. It's not Coke's old and we're the new generation and we're hip. It's like they're trying to act hip, but doesn't, it falls flat. And falling flat for a carbonated beverage is not good.

Mark Vandegrift
You're very punny. Well, let's get to today's topic. We're going to talk about out of home and let me define that a little bit. Out of home literally means out of home. So it doesn't mean just outdoor. It doesn't have to be in the open space of a sky. It can be in a mall. It can be on a gas station pump. It can be in an airport.It can be on the side of a bus, you name it. Out of home literally is any place you're consuming a message that is not in your home. So a lot of times we have folks that confuse out of home just with billboard and that's not correct or outdoor, which typically equates more to billboard than does truly out of home advertising. So we just want to educate as we talk here And it can be high traffic areas, it can be low traffic areas, it doesn't matter. I wouldn't call Canton Akron Airport a high traffic area. They have a lot of people go through there every day, but it's not like this road out here where we have thousands and thousands and thousands of cars driving by our billboards that are right outside of our agency here. So really, one of the things to think about out of home is it's not very targeted, okay? There's very few out of home advertising that can be as discreet as what a lot of channels are today where you can target based on a geographic or a demographic or a psychographic. But that being said, the message that hits typically will be applicable to a large portion of the audience. In other words, let me give you an example, Custom Auto Body, which has been our 45 year old client. They are a body shop. And if I'm driving a car and I go buy a body shop billboard, guess what? I'm a target. Okay. So it makes sense for a company like that. Out of home doesn't make sense for every company. So we just, I want to be clear on defining it. And then,

Lorraine Kessler
But you said now, I think that out of home, let's just take billboard for example, It can be targeted geographically. That's one of the values of it. You run it where you have distribution, right? You wouldn't run it nationwide. And if you only have a shop in Canton, Ohio. So I just want to clarify that. Yeah.

Mark Vandegrift
True. Yep, acknowledge. That's good clarification, right? And then there's two main types now, and they're more in terms of the format of the medium, which is there's digital and there's traditional or static, we would call it. So if a billboard is digital, it means there's probably changing billboards going on and it looks like a big TV screen. Or if you're at a pump and you're seeing a video, That's also, that's known as digital out of home. Whereas a static one would be where you see a poster, it's up for a month or a couple months and the creative doesn't change. So just wanna clarify that for our audiences so they understand the value of that. And our research suggested that billboards as one form of out of home originated all the way back to the 1830s. Well, I'm going to contest that statistic because when we were in Italy, we visited the city of Pompeii, which was buried by lava, I believe in 76 D when Mount Vesuvius erupted. And what they have uncovered there is on the side of these walls within the city, they found political advertising and it was shaped just like a billboard, it was about the same size. One was on the front of a market that they believed the owner of that market was the one running for office and so that was an ad. And then there was another one that was on a bigger board or a bigger building that was a bigger advertisement also for a political candidate. So I'm thinking, heck with the 1830s, we're going back to 76 AD here.

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. That's cool. Yeah.

Mark Vandegrift
So that's out of home as best as I can define it. it was some pretty incredible creative too. It wasn't just vote for. It was interesting to see what they promised. It wasn't free recess and longer lunch hours, but it was something close to that where there was commentary offered within the outdoor advertising.

Lorraine Kessler
So as one of the slogans, vote for my big, beautiful Bill. Or I'll make a huge difference. Yeah. my gosh. That's funny. That's great. That's great. I mean, heck.

Mark Vandegrift
Probably. Vote before we get covered over by lava.

Mark Vandegrift
Well, give us your thoughts Lorraine on out of home advertising.

Lorraine Kessler
Well, you know, first of all, I've always had a problem with the name out of home. You know, sounds like somebody left the agent home and we're looking for them. I just, I guess I prefer environmental advertising. I mean, because some of it is environmental. I've seen people paint parking spaces with ad messages or telephone poles, or I mean, and I think when you say out of home, it kind of limits the thinking. So. I just think the name needs a little thinking. And sometimes we have called it environmental, right? Like the whole side of a building is a mural. That's a message. That's an advertisement. So, and as you said, you know, I just want to go back to Billboard because that's what most people know as one specific in this category is it does have that broad reach. It is usually cost effective and efficient, although setting it up can be costly. But I think it's mainly a supporting media for a brand that has a well-known difference, right? It can give you sustained exposure of that message. So it's really good because if you have an ad campaign like McDonald's, I'm loving it, right? And they come out and they have TV and they have a journal and they have a whole vibe on that. I'm loving it. And then you see McDonald's billboards day in, day out that now are able to advertise particular food where I know and so they can suggest to me, hey, maybe I want some french fries right now, right? And they continue to put that frequency in play on that slogan, I'm loving it. So I feel like it's a great and often underused support medium. And I think when it's used as the primary medium, it's less effective. It can be effective. I'm not saying it's not, particularly for a local company that can only do Billboard, but it would be even better if it had some broadcast or some other media helping it along. And the reason is it's a limited message in length and detail, right? It's not, I don't think Billboard in other words is great at creating the brand impetus or message or reason to buy. You need support to do that, but it's best at sustaining that. So it's just like it lets that beat go on, right? So that's my world word on Billboard. But I think most out of home works similarly. Even in airports you mentioned, it doesn't target as broadly, right? Because it's people driving by. It's people walking by. But it's highly noticeable. Because you come into these airports and there's not a lot to look at side to side. You see these big airport signs. And if you're a frequent traveler, you're to see it with frequency. And we know that, you know, becoming famous for your message is, you know, top of mind. That's the holy grail. So it can have an effect for those who travel quite a bit. It can even have an effect for those who've seen, you know, another commercial or your brand, and then they see it in the airport when they're leaving and coming home. So there's a degree of targeting there that way because it's only travelers, know. Other people who don't walk through an airport aren't going to see it. And I think that's the similar with transit, right? People who don't ride public transit aren't going to see it. People who don't visit like downtown or parks are going to see benches with your message. So there is a little bit of targeting, not in the way that we think about when we talk about digital and really going after a psychographic, a lifestyle, a behavior, a demographic. But there is some of it. I just think it's a great sustaining medium and it should at all times be considered. But I think on the other side, Billboard and all of this category really suffers from a severe lack of creativity. I mean, there is just so much opportunity and I'm hoping Lindsey and her post edit can find some examples because they always put these in the share with our creative people of outdoor or out of home that just like blows your mind on how they've taken the message and done something dramatically different and just it just it makes you just not only helps recall but it makes you have a really good emotional reaction to the to the message. One that lasts a long time.

Mark Vandegrift
Well, it's funny because if you've ever put up a garage sale sign or you've ever put a, lost my puppy or I lost my cat sign on a telephone pole, or you've ever had a yard sign in your yard, you've actually been involved with what we call out of home advertising. I remember the days where we traveled a lot more for business before that 2020 pandemic thing hit and going back to targeting a little bit, business travelers were, you know, majority of the travel. And one that always struck at me was Accenture, which is about networking and their technology and everything. And I would see them constantly in airports. And that was, that was the majority of the, the advertising that I would see, but they knew that a lot of business travelers came through. Did they care about the guy that was, you know, maybe traveling on vacation? Well, only if he was also buying that service for his business. But they weren't, they didn't care that they missed vacationers or people traveling to see loved ones or whatever it may be. They just cared about that business person who they assume was a decision maker because they were at a level where they were traveling a lot. And so, you know, I think that's pretty neat.

Lorraine Kessler
It's funny that you say that because when I was thinking about this topic, that's the brand I associated with airports. So isn't it interesting that they kind of own airports as their medium, not just the outside out of home, it's they own airports as their medium. I think that's really interesting that you and I both have that thought.

Mark Vandegrift
Well, one that comes to mind that we would put in the Hall of Fame because it made it into a textbook is our own Dick Maggiore concept for custom model body way back when. I'm not going to steal your thunder Lorraine. Why don't you tell us about creativity in outdoor use and how long ago this was?

Lorraine Kessler
Well, gosh, how, I mean, I think you gave the statistic on how long they've been a client. I'm not real good with years,

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah, it's about 45, but I think this was in the late 70s or early 80s when this happened.

Lorraine Kessler
Right. And I think Dick came up with the idea if you're fixing cars, can we have a car literally inflate on a billboard so you see a perfect car front and then it deflates like as if it's been crashed. And I think that put Dick in the hall of fame of advertisers, that billboard and Rose custom auto body to top of mind in the market. And this is number one for body repair. So I think, you know, great job. That was creativity exercised. And there's just so many great examples of where out of home and billboard in particular can be used so much more creatively than it often is.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah, I mean, he brought a three dimension aspect to what's normally known as a flat medium, you know, billboard. And so he was in one of the marketing textbooks that was used for decades. It's probably still in there, but they don't use textbooks anymore. Well, you know, let's think back through some of the, guess, all time best creative that we've done, because you brought that up, right? And one of the ones that jumps to mind is, you remember the Woody campaign for Aultman with the joint assessment? And I thought that was a brilliant one. You led that. Do you want to share a little bit?

Lorraine Kessler
Well, I just, I didn't lead it much other than write the brief for what we needed to have with the campaign on the promoting Aultman's orthopedic services. I think it was totally a creative idea to equate that to what artists typically will have in their office, which is that little woody character that helps you figure out how to diagram people or draft people. And...And I thought that was a really effective transposition, I guess that's not a word, but transpose of something very close to the creative person that related really well to what we were promoting. So cool. That was a good idea. It goes to Jeff Monter. Yeah.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Scott Edwards and Jeff Monter came up with that, I believe. And that was one of my favorite all time. But we do a lot of out of home, a lot of vehicle wrap designs. And we have a lot of examples of that recently.

Lorraine Kessler
I like the vehicles. I think vehicles are another one that are huge, hugely important today and underutilized. And we have done some really nice vehicles.

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah. Well, what was interesting going back to travels when we went to Scotland, it's been 15 years now. I was shocked. Every square inch of a taxi in Scotland was an advertisement. Sometimes the whole vehicle was the ad. Sometimes it was individual ads, almost like one of those place maps and get in a diner. So.

Lorraine Kessler
like a NASCAR car? What, like a NASCAR car?

Mark Vandegrift
almost like a NASCAR car, but I would call it more environmental, like you said. I mean, if it was a bug, a Volkswagen bug, it would do a certain thing that they made it fit the application while still promoting the product.
Well, switching gears over to the digital side of it, I mentioned digital out of home and that really started coming, I don't know, about the early 2000s where we saw a lot of display screens. I mean, it was earlier when you think of your ultimate digital out of home, you think of Times Square, right? That's kind of like the Nirvana of digital out of home and it tends to get more attention because it's moving. It's not static. So it still works the same way in the sense that it can reach larger audiences and public spaces, et cetera, et cetera. But there's a couple of great benefits to it. One is the moving component of it. So it can tell a little bit more of a story. Two, it gets better attention. Three, it can go up very quickly because you're basically uploading a digital asset. as we know, that's almost instantaneous. And then it can be personalized, believe it or not. There's actually been digital boards that connect to certain vehicles. And as you're driving by, it'll be just like the matrix. Lorraine, have you checked your oil lately? So a lot of capability there. And then also frequent rotation. So there's a lot of benefit to a digital format over a static format. So tell us how... digital advertising in out of home takes regular traditional out of home a step further and what you think it can do for impact on a brand or a position.

Lorraine Kessler
Well, I don't think it's much different. By the way, Lorraine, did you check your oil? Did you say that? Because I'm Italian.

Mark Vandegrift
No, that was just the campaign. think it was Volkswagen that did that.

Lorraine Kessler
Oh, yeah. Nice reminder. I think it works the way any motion advertising works. mean, we like motion. We like video. You think about a ballpark and when they are running those motion ads after breaks and whatever. They're very effective. have your attention. They increase involvement and impact. And so used rightly, they really have great value. It's all about making the right impressions done rightly, not wrongly. And I think digital raises the quality of that perception if done right, not the case if done poorly. I'm old enough, though, I keep having in my head this weird feeling from Blade Runner, the movie, you know, and it just has this weird sci-fi where there's this omnipresent kind of messaging going on and political and advertising is fused and maybe we're in that world now. I don't know, but there is a weird vibe I do get when I think about it. When I'm seeing it, I don't have those problems. So no matter whether you're using digital and you're taking advantage of the qualities of motion and sound, even if you have sound, but even just motion, you have to have the artful surprise to make it engaging. And that's immutable, whether static or motion. And I think that's the thing that an advertiser that's truly creative needs to spend a little more time thinking.

Mark Vandegrift
Well, one of the things that we always talk about with any, really any campaign is does it lean more on the brand side? Is it lean more on the transactional side or what they call activation these days? know, out of home isn't typically, it doesn't typically fall on the transaction side. It's typically known as brand advertising. And to that point, it can't be measured as much as a lot of marketers want it to be measured today. So give us a compelling reason, Lorraine, why we would want to use a mix of out of home within a campaign if it's right for the brand.

Lorraine Kessler
Well, you know, it's subliminal. It works at such a subliminal level. And again, it's the pattern of it, the frequency that you see it. It's the great reminder. It's the great emphasis on something that you have some familiarity with. I don't think it's great, as I said, at creating the brand. That is not the way to create a brand. McDonald's didn't create a brand with Billboard. It is sustaining its product menu and why you should buy there through Billboard and its Loving It campaign. So it's helping you say, does Loving It mean? Oh it's french fries. It means a Big Mac. It means seasonal drinks right now. So it's an extender and a sustainer. I think if you can afford it and it fits your Fit your market, obviously business to business doesn't really fit. I mean, I'm sure you can find some example, but it really doesn't fit. But food products, restaurant products fits, tire service, any kind of service that's local or regional that might need reminders, that might be cyclical. Is it time to buy a new car? Is it time to change your tires, change your oil, whatever? So you have to think about what's the message. Who's the audience? What's my media budget? What can I put into the bucket? And I think it's good to think what media is driving, going to drive decision. And then what media will sustain that influence and sustain that. And I think you got to put out of home or Billboard in there.

Mark Vandegrift
Yep. Good. Yeah. I always think of Aflac when you're, when you're talking about building a brand, they didn't have TV upfront and we saw a billboard with a duck on it. We'd be like, huh? But today you see it and it just keeps the reminder of Aflac right there because it's a static message. And guess what? That probably costs a lot less per impression than running a Superbowl ad.

Lorraine Kessler
And the two mortal sins of billboard are saying too much because you're trying to create or persuade. You can't do it in a billboard. That's not the meaning for that. You have to be so creatively and strategically succinct. And the second thing is designers who love small, fine, because they think it's elegant and then you can't read it. And nothing irritates someone more than a billboard they can't read. Now sometimes it's a small font, most times that's the problem. But I've seen one, and I can't remember who it was for because I can't read, excuse me, I'm most cursed. I can't read the billboard because the colors between the font and the background are too slight. Like who designed this?

Mark Vandegrift
Yeah, there's not enough contrast. Yeah.

Lorraine Kessler
There's like a little thing you can actually buy that you put your billboard in and take steps back and you can see what it's going to look like in the real world. So those to me are worthy of malpractice.

Mark Vandegrift
Well, you know who's getting it right is Tim Misny. I swear. He built his brand through TV, and now I don't see him on TV at all, but boy do I see all his billboards.

Lorraine Kessler
He is saving a ton of money because he even just has a billboard we talked about where it's his head with the eyebrow. And I mean, and you fill in the line, he'll make them pay. I mean, it, because why? that, and that's a good thing because you look at, let's decode what he had. He has a consistent message. I'll make them pay. He himself is an icon, not just the suit he wears. That's part of it in the way he dresses, but his bald head with that perched eyebrow. I mean, you do not forget it, right? I remember last Halloween, Channel 3, one of our clients, WKYC, did a campaign with one of their news guys for best decorated house. the lady who won took one of those huge skeletons and dressed it like Tim Misny. We decided, said, I'll make them pay. It was hysterical. mean, and they had Tim Misny. unbeknownst to the award winner, drive up and give her the award. I know was great. It was great. So free PR because of a great ad. If anybody wants to know how to do that, really do billboard really right for a service. They need to look at Tim Misny.

Mark Vandegrift
Yep. And call us.

Lorraine Kessler
Yeah.

Mark Vandegrift
Well, good. Let's wrap up this episode of Brand Shorthand Podcast. Thanks Lorraine for joining us again. And thank you to our listeners. Please, please like, subscribe and share with a friend. And until next time, have an amazing day.